With all the rhetoric equating President Donald Trump and the Trump administration to the Confederacy, it should come as no surprise that people are losing their minds this morning over something they believe they are seeing on various government websites.
I'm not convinced that the message has been ignored by those who would be happiest seeing their message surreptitiously worked into the official USA websites. It is preposterous to believe that this was the only solution for representing the complete Stars & Stripes to display as a logo. Nine stars and no one thought, "Hey, weren't there nine stars on early Confederate flags?" To believe that civil servants are either not smart enough to try and pull it off or so dense that none among their ranks saw a potential problem, certainly underestimates what is possible, esp in a nation increasingly polarized by race and class.
If ever there was a snow job on the true intent of the losing traitor's flag popping up on Union websites, this is it. The use of confederate pictography--we are to believe an abbreviated version of our flag reduces 50 to 9 and not miss the deliberate attempt to suggest the infamous "we shall rise again" pledge. Please. 2017 or now, this should have been caught a long time ago and made clear it was not to be used. But apparently that didn't happen. It keeps the Rebs pumped!
Why would anyone think this was a Confederate flag. It doesn't represent one in the slightest bit. My favorite flag is what some call the "Betsy Ross" flag. It has thirteen stars.
You're full of crap. The post Civil War re-union UCV Flag, used 9 stars in 3 rows. The nine stars on that flag symbolize the first nine states to seceded from the Union at the beginning of the Civil War........
How you can then disassociate this with the confederacy is BAFFLING.....
Whether you like it or not such a flag was CREATED post Civil war to represent the 9 states that sparked the Civil War. It not being as popular does not chnage this.
I know you're poo pooing on the flag people are showing you.... But WHERE do you think this flag came from? Do you think it was created after Trump won reelection?!? It came from SOMEWHERE.... the one that's for sale is some mega elaborate FAKE??!
Can you please point me to a reference in the scholarship on Confederate veterans and the UCV in particular that supports your point other than the problematic auctioneer photo that everyone is posting?
To think that anyone would try to place a Confederate flag that represents a flag so obscure, that no one other than the most paranoid would identify as such, is truly ridiculous.
The very same flag, likely a bad low-res emoji representation of the US flag has been on these websites for a number of years. If you had read the other comments in this thread you would know that.
THIS 9 STAR FLAG REPRESENTS THE FIRST 9 STATES TO SUCCEED FROM THE UNION AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CIVIL WAR. THESE STATES LATER FORMED THE CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA. IT IS IN FACT A CONFEDERATE FLAG MY GUY.
It took an embarrassingly short ten minutes of googling to determine the icon is not a dystopian Easter egg. PDF docs live forever in search results even if they’re buried on websites. Once I knew I wanted a screen grab of the old fed sites, it was an easy keyword search.
You are the third person to share this link. There is very little reason to believe that this flag has anything to do with Confederate veterans. I've talked to a number of experts in this area and they don't believe it is what the auctioneer claims it to be. Either way, there is no reason to believe that anyone would intend to represent a Confederate flag with this image. Please read my post for further clarification. Thank you.
Yes, someone else already posted a link to it. I've never seen it and I have my doubts that it has anything to do with Confederate veterans. Either way, it is simply ridiculous to think that the Trump administration would change the flag on a website, to represent a Confederate flag, based on this design.
I do not share your sentiments that it's ridiculous or even far-fetched. There was no need to change the flag on the websites. I hadn't scrolled far enough down to see someone else post this link. I did see another one but didn't look the same as the one on the sites as the one linked above. Occam's Razor indeed.
It is NOT ridiculous to think Trump would so something petty and confrontational like this. That's why so many people who don't do their research are running with it. It *totally* seems like something he would do.
But--you are correct. Because he didn't do it--at least not in his second term he didn't. Here's a page on the wayback machine for ICE from early in the Biden administration.
It's not ridiculous that Trump would do something like this; it's completely plausible. It's just not true.
As far as whether it's a Confederate flag or a UCV one, I don't have a better claim to know than you, but I did run across this naval ensign on Wikipedia:
What evidence do you have that it was changed? Do you possess before and after screenshots? Either way, there is zero reason to believe that it is a Confederate flag.
Thank you so so much for your informative and thoughtful article. Earlier today, it was already communicated to me that the Confederate flag was now on government websites, and before I spread that rumor to a school full of teachers, I wanted to double check and you were beyond helpful. Thank you for helping to maintain some peace in a challenging time.
You're full of crap. The post Civil War re-union UCV Flag, used 9 stars in 3 rows. The nine stars on that flag symbolize the first nine states to seceded from the Union at the beginning of the Civil War........
How you can then disassociate this with the confederacy is BAFFLING.....
Whether you like it or not such a flag was CREATED post Civil war to represent the 9 states that sparked the. Civil War. It not being as popular does not chnage this.
Semantics. Can we acknowledge that the bigger issue is the possibility that this little icon on our Govt website is representative of a much larger issue. The fact that the dog whistles are being ignored or explained away (and not very well) is alarming. As a historian can you recognize why people are worried and trying to speak up.
I work with evidence. You just shared an image that is clearly not a UCV flag. Two things can both be true here. People are alarmed and worried and misinformation about Confederate flags appearing on federal government websites is being spread.
I am a historian of the Civil War era and one of the things I do is help my readers discern the difference between fact and fiction. I don't know what else you want me to say.
I'm not convinced that the message has been ignored by those who would be happiest seeing their message surreptitiously worked into the official USA websites. It is preposterous to believe that this was the only solution for representing the complete Stars & Stripes to display as a logo. Nine stars and no one thought, "Hey, weren't there nine stars on early Confederate flags?" To believe that civil servants are either not smart enough to try and pull it off or so dense that none among their ranks saw a potential problem, certainly underestimates what is possible, esp in a nation increasingly polarized by race and class.
You are free to believe what you want.
If ever there was a snow job on the true intent of the losing traitor's flag popping up on Union websites, this is it. The use of confederate pictography--we are to believe an abbreviated version of our flag reduces 50 to 9 and not miss the deliberate attempt to suggest the infamous "we shall rise again" pledge. Please. 2017 or now, this should have been caught a long time ago and made clear it was not to be used. But apparently that didn't happen. It keeps the Rebs pumped!
That flag has nothing to do with the Confederacy or anything else for that matter.
You said: "It keeps the Rebs pumped!"
The funny thing is that Neo-Confederates paid zero attention to this story. It was a story completely manufactured by folks on the political left.
Why would anyone think this was a Confederate flag. It doesn't represent one in the slightest bit. My favorite flag is what some call the "Betsy Ross" flag. It has thirteen stars.
I completely missed this controversy. Who disseminated it in the first place?
I don't know how it started.
I am fascinated. I had no idea this flag thing had exploded to this degree
It went completely off the rails.
Confirmation bias in action in the comments section, I see. Of all the things happening now, this is the hill people are dying on?
You're full of crap. The post Civil War re-union UCV Flag, used 9 stars in 3 rows. The nine stars on that flag symbolize the first nine states to seceded from the Union at the beginning of the Civil War........
How you can then disassociate this with the confederacy is BAFFLING.....
Whether you like it or not such a flag was CREATED post Civil war to represent the 9 states that sparked the Civil War. It not being as popular does not chnage this.
I know you're poo pooing on the flag people are showing you.... But WHERE do you think this flag came from? Do you think it was created after Trump won reelection?!? It came from SOMEWHERE.... the one that's for sale is some mega elaborate FAKE??!
Can you please point me to a reference in the scholarship on Confederate veterans and the UCV in particular that supports your point other than the problematic auctioneer photo that everyone is posting?
To think that anyone would try to place a Confederate flag that represents a flag so obscure, that no one other than the most paranoid would identify as such, is truly ridiculous.
The very same flag, likely a bad low-res emoji representation of the US flag has been on these websites for a number of years. If you had read the other comments in this thread you would know that.
Now please go away.
THIS 9 STAR FLAG REPRESENTS THE FIRST 9 STATES TO SUCCEED FROM THE UNION AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CIVIL WAR. THESE STATES LATER FORMED THE CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA. IT IS IN FACT A CONFEDERATE FLAG MY GUY.
With all due respect, it's hard to take anyone seriously who can't use the correct language. It's secede, not succeed.
This is from a PP for how to use USAJobs.gov from 2016 featuring website screenshots with the same banner: https://train.jobs.utah.gov/jobseeker/usajobs.pdf
Thanks for sharing this. It's a hell of a thing to watch people get completely bent out of shape over this.
It took an embarrassingly short ten minutes of googling to determine the icon is not a dystopian Easter egg. PDF docs live forever in search results even if they’re buried on websites. Once I knew I wanted a screen grab of the old fed sites, it was an easy keyword search.
Right. This is not rocket science. Some of these people shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a search engine.
https://www.historicalamericana.com/product/9-star-flag/
You are the third person to share this link. There is very little reason to believe that this flag has anything to do with Confederate veterans. I've talked to a number of experts in this area and they don't believe it is what the auctioneer claims it to be. Either way, there is no reason to believe that anyone would intend to represent a Confederate flag with this image. Please read my post for further clarification. Thank you.
Post Civil War
I mean? Why at the bottom of that page does it say flags of the Confederate states then? #SorryNotSorry.
I am not sure what exactly you are asking.
The posts I am seeing are referring to this image:
https://www.historicalamericana.com/product/9-star-flag/
It seems an odd choice to go with 9 stars for the sake of saving space knowing the potential association.
Yes, someone else already posted a link to it. I've never seen it and I have my doubts that it has anything to do with Confederate veterans. Either way, it is simply ridiculous to think that the Trump administration would change the flag on a website, to represent a Confederate flag, based on this design.
There is such a thing called Occam's Razor.
I do not share your sentiments that it's ridiculous or even far-fetched. There was no need to change the flag on the websites. I hadn't scrolled far enough down to see someone else post this link. I did see another one but didn't look the same as the one on the sites as the one linked above. Occam's Razor indeed.
It is NOT ridiculous to think Trump would so something petty and confrontational like this. That's why so many people who don't do their research are running with it. It *totally* seems like something he would do.
But--you are correct. Because he didn't do it--at least not in his second term he didn't. Here's a page on the wayback machine for ICE from early in the Biden administration.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210201000014/https://www.ice.gov/
It's not ridiculous that Trump would do something like this; it's completely plausible. It's just not true.
As far as whether it's a Confederate flag or a UCV one, I don't have a better claim to know than you, but I did run across this naval ensign on Wikipedia:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Ensign_of_the_Confederate_States_%289_stars%29.svg/2560px-Ensign_of_the_Confederate_States_%289_stars%29.svg.png
and it's not totally unlike the thing that that fake antique flag site shows.
But whether it was or not, it's kind of moot, when you know that Biden displayed the thing for four years.
What evidence do you have that it was changed? Do you possess before and after screenshots? Either way, there is zero reason to believe that it is a Confederate flag.
When did the the government start using this flag without all 50 stars on their websites?
I have no idea. It's a low-res image that is intended to represent the US flag. The fact that it doesn't include all 50 stars is irrelevant.
Thank you so so much for your informative and thoughtful article. Earlier today, it was already communicated to me that the Confederate flag was now on government websites, and before I spread that rumor to a school full of teachers, I wanted to double check and you were beyond helpful. Thank you for helping to maintain some peace in a challenging time.
Hi Yashi,
I can't tell you how much I appreciate the kind words. It makes the time spent writing these posts worthwhile. All the best.
Yet the emoji manages to get all 50 stars on it.🇺🇸 I am still suspicious. Maybe not referring to the original flag, but a more modern take?
I don't know what you mean by "modern take." It's not, in any way, a Confederate flag. I don't know how to make this any clearer.
You're full of crap. The post Civil War re-union UCV Flag, used 9 stars in 3 rows. The nine stars on that flag symbolize the first nine states to seceded from the Union at the beginning of the Civil War........
How you can then disassociate this with the confederacy is BAFFLING.....
Whether you like it or not such a flag was CREATED post Civil war to represent the 9 states that sparked the. Civil War. It not being as popular does not chnage this.
Sure it is. Compare apples to apples. The flag on the new .gov sites looks exactly like a UCV flag.
https://www.historicalamericana.com/product/9-star-flag/
I've already addressed this particular flag in this thread. Please read before you comment.
https://www.bonsellamericana.com/antique-flag-blog/tag/9+Star+Antique+American+Flag
Did you even read the description? It is dated 1862, three years before the war ended. It can't be a veterans flag of any sort.
Semantics. Can we acknowledge that the bigger issue is the possibility that this little icon on our Govt website is representative of a much larger issue. The fact that the dog whistles are being ignored or explained away (and not very well) is alarming. As a historian can you recognize why people are worried and trying to speak up.
I work with evidence. You just shared an image that is clearly not a UCV flag. Two things can both be true here. People are alarmed and worried and misinformation about Confederate flags appearing on federal government websites is being spread.
I am a historian of the Civil War era and one of the things I do is help my readers discern the difference between fact and fiction. I don't know what else you want me to say.
The very first confederate flag was 9 stars, 3 in each row. It changed as more states seceded.
Please provide a reference for this claim. The only First Nationals that I have ever seen show the stars in a circle. Thank you.